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kerry, america lose

Post #402 • November 3, 2004, 12:19 PM • 35 Comments

Kerry just phoned the White House to concede the election.

Artists, historically, have done well under theocracies and oligarchies, and we are headed towards an unholy amalgam of both as fast as our sport utility vehicles will carry us.

But now is not the time to criticize the president. We should unite behind him. We should embrace his philosphy and carry it to its logical conclusions.

We should rid the world of American allies. We should declare jihad against Islam itself. Every drop of oil must be sucked from the earth, beginning with the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, which we should turn into a giant sawmill. We should launch nuclear strikes against Iran, Syria, Jordan, and all remaining insurgent strongholds in Iraq, and take their oil. Criminalize abortion, and punish anyone who obtains one with the death penalty. Criminalize homosexuality, even if it means selling out your own family. We should not tax anyone making over $100,000 a year. Unfetter the Patriot Act with concerns for individual liberites and enact the 100%, 24-hour surveillance state that we so desperately desire. Make all corporations immune to regulations and lawsuits. And most of all, lie and lie and lie and lie until we get what we want. And when the world is a cinder and we go to our heavenly reward, we will feel no fear, because we will have accepted Jesus Christ into our hearts.





November 3, 2004, 8:26 PM

Between Bush being re-elected and the passing of all of those anti-gay marriage ballot questions (is it me or are they outlawing something that has yet to exist??), I'm not sure I care to stay in this country.

I saw September 11, a collection of short films from around the world. One of the narrarators explains the view of ordinary people living in the middle east under dictatorships. To paraphrase, since America is a democracy, whatever perceived evil we commit in the world (of which there has been plenty) is the responsibility of the people. When Iraq invaded Kuwait, Sadam was to blame. But when the US invaded Iraq, the american people were to blame. By re-electing the guy who made the call, we have accepted responsibility. Whether that invites more terrorist attacks on us we have yet to see.



November 3, 2004, 9:07 PM

Hey, man relax, Christ is not to blame... it's the majority who rules. Accept the vote of your own people and don't be such a whiner... the world will not end in four years.



November 3, 2004, 9:42 PM

Ty is right. The republic will survive. Everytime anyone loses an election their partisans talk about leaving the country. They never do. They know better.

Let's get back to art and leave politics to the talking heads on TV.



November 3, 2004, 10:09 PM

So Bond Issue #8 passed, as it was bound to do. The great majority of voters only knew, and only went by, what was written in the ballot, which was very vague and definitely did not tell the whole story. Whoever wrote the ballot blurb, which was so worded that it would induce guilt for voting No in someone who didn't know better, is not someone I want as a public servant. Let's just hope that MAM rises to the occasion, though if it doesn't, the money will obviously not be refunded to the public.



November 3, 2004, 10:59 PM

Jack! Is this Is this Please refrain from expressing your opinions about your preferred public servant characteristics. We're just talking about art here, remember? Now get back to talking about how personally insulted you feel about the existence of installation art. Right quick!


Jerome du Bois

November 4, 2004, 12:24 AM


I had no idea how much manure you had swallowed.

I thought you were smarter -- maybe I was wrong.

Grow up.




November 4, 2004, 1:01 AM

Bush is the new teflon don.



November 4, 2004, 1:01 AM

OH, --

That was unnecesary. Franklin introduced the bond matter big time a couple days ago and it has been discussed here since by lots of posters. Franklin himself is having shitfits about the election. I want to talk about art too, but I don't think Jacks comment is out of place in any way. And if he wants to be cranky and disputative, so what. Let's lighten up on the bitchiness quotient on this blog, people.



November 4, 2004, 1:33 AM

I'm still reeling from all of this. My liberal boss is tossing me conspiracy theories about missing votes in Florida, but I think Bush may have honestly had 3 million + more votes than Kerry, which is even scarier than voter fraud.

In a way, it makes a hell of a lot of sense. Many rural/regular/less educated/small town/red Americans simply vote with their hearts & religious understanding, on the impassioned gestures of a candidate, on small fry or seemingly ridiculous issues, or simply vote for the incumbent. Evangelical Christians have been waiting for this outcome. We gravely underestimated red America.

What really upsets me is that younger people didn't really vote all that much more than last election. I waited four hours to fiddle with a touchscreen, so I think college liberal minded Americans should have made a stronger attempt.

The gay marriage issue isn't surprising, but still upsetting, and maybe the word "marriage" is what hurt us so badly. Partner beneifts are offered by many companies, and its really only a matter of time before the educated blue states give us some sort of break. Personally, I'll never give into a heterosexual institution that really doesn't want us, and if in the future I decide to settle down, it'll be on personal terms that have nothing to do with the church or straight culture. Regardless, lets keep positive, continue to hiss & boo at that goddamned monkey in office, and just hope for the best.


Jerome du Bois

November 4, 2004, 2:59 AM

Okay, now I get the new spin. That was fast: ignorant, Bible-thumping, snake-handling stump-jumpers re-elected the President.

You people are even stupider than you sound.




November 4, 2004, 3:26 AM

Dear Oh,
If you want to be facetious, enjoy yourself, but it should be quite evident from all my previous comments on this matter that my interest in it is clearly art-related, specifically MAM-related. As to my presumed feelings about installations, I refer you to the "Roundup" thread of October 8, comment #18, where I wrote at some length in praise of an installation by Martin Oppel; I guess you missed it.



November 4, 2004, 4:19 AM

I think the King of Gonzo sumed this up this quote:

This may be the year when we finally come face to face with ourselves; finally just lay back and say it -- that we are really just a nation of 220 million used car salesmen with all the money we need to buy guns, and no qualms at all about killing anybody else in the world who tries to make us uncomfortable.

Hunter S. Thompson
Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail
November 1972



November 4, 2004, 4:39 AM

Ignorant? I doubt it. Snake-handling? Probably not. Stump-jumping? Sounds like fun. Bible-thumping? You bet.

Alright, Jerome, if I'm so stupitt, then maybe your genius self can explain to me what the exit strategy is in Iraq. Go ahead, I'm listening. Oh, and as much as you go on about how Islam doesn't respect women, I want to see your panties turn into an advanced topology problem when we start seeing the new restrictions on abortion rights (Item one. One!). I'm holding you to it.


Jerome du Bois

November 4, 2004, 5:01 AM


Hold this, coward:

While you're talking cute and ignoring reality, Theodore van Gogh's formerly robust, life-filled, 27-year-old dead body is cooling in an Amsterdam morgue. When you sent me an email this morning accusing me of demonizing Islam in a post which mentioned Mr. van Gogh's murder, you didn't see fit to even mention his name. He was murdered for defending women from being beaten and murdered by Islamic men. So read it and weep, jerk.

I see now how the loony left will respond to this good thing for the future. You'll burn your own kites. In the meantime, the United States will help free 250 million Middle Eastern young men and women. But you clowns, just keep wankin'. It's what you do best.


Jerome du Bois



November 4, 2004, 5:30 AM

Franklin: You sound as bombastic as the ones you condemn, just shut up and talk about art. That's what you know, leave politics for others. You can't handle it. Again, relax and leave your personal problems for the four corners of your studio... practice yoga or something.



November 4, 2004, 10:16 AM

TY - did you just tell me to shut up and practice yoga? Fuck off and have a nice day! But you're right, I can't handle it. I'm an artist, and where Daily Kos has a circuit board, I have a Tesla coil.

Jerome: exit strategy. Still waiting. Don't ignore my question and tell me I'm ignoring reality.

The terrorists operate without borders; Bush operates without allies. Which sounds like a more effective strategy?



November 4, 2004, 4:09 PM

Talk to the hand, Jerome. My own informal and anecdotal poll indicates that the average IQ of bush supporters is 25 points lower then the average IQ of kerry supporters. There are intelligent people who voted for Bush (i'm sure), but they have to come to terms with the fact that their guy got elected by stupid people, MOST of whom bought into Saddam being behind 9/11.

And if you think someone getting killed by "a group of Islamic men" has any bearing on how the world should deal with Islam, well, I just hope you realize that makes you just as much of a racist as guys in Georgia who lynched people in the 1900's.



November 4, 2004, 4:52 PM

I wish we could get this excited about art.


The Map

November 4, 2004, 5:46 PM

JdB -

Just look at the map of the electoral college. Where is the red and where is the blue? What do those areas bring to mind? For me it's as simple as that. The middle of America is always about 10 years behind the coasts.

The gay marriage ban is the funniest to me. It's like racial segregation 60 years ago. It was perfectly accepted then, but now it's viewed as incredibly stupid. In 50 years gay marriage will be perfectly acceptable and legal. It's just a matter of time for the old conservative generations to die off so that progress can be made.


Jerome du Bois

November 4, 2004, 7:47 PM


Since this is probably the last missive I'll be posting here, I might as well make it a long one.

First, to the brave soul named yikes: I'm supposed to accept your informal and anecdotal poll, claimed by some bozo without even a real name? And it wasn't "someone" who got killed by Muslim fanatics; it was a man ten times braver than you, named Theodore van Gogh, who went out riding his bicycle in the face of known danger. What kinds of danger do you face every day, you dingaling?

Second, to the Map: It's always the middle of America that has fought the wars and died to save your sorry ass.

Finally, to Franklin:

Let the rift begin. I don't mind. And keep your drawing.

Let's take the abortion scare first. In today's NYT, Richard Viguerie, probably the oldest, most ossified conservative dinosaur, started braying about turning the Court around and yah yah yah, this is a revolution. This rich, direct-mail turkey was saying the same thing back in the early Eighties, when I was a born-again Christian and paying attention to this kind of crap. And what happened? In the last 24 years, I can't point to a single American woman I know who has been refused an abortion. I know several who have had abortions, and I've never heard of any problems with the availability of the procedure.

It's nice to know you care about women, though -- as long as their American, anyway.

Exit strategy: You remind me of a pubescent boy stamping his foot because his videogame didn't turn out the way it was advertised. Grown-ups know the future is always dark. And you don't define the terms of the debate. Here's my feeling about exit strategy, okay? If it leads through Iran and Syria and Saudi Arabia, I say go go go. If both of my boys join up in this ongoing war, I'd be proud. If they went over there and came back maimed or dead, I'd be proud. If they could use me, I would lock and load and go kill the enemies of freedom for the freedom of strangers half a world away -- as my father, and my great-great-grandfather did. Because the end result is freedom and peace for millions of people.

Should Theodore van Gogh have had an exit strategy before undertaking to make his fateful movie? He had to do it, for the sake of women's freedom.

It's the way of the future. Bye.


Jerome du Bois



November 4, 2004, 8:50 PM

Haven't read the full content of these comments yet, but I see from a glance that Franklin and have been hit with some turnabout whiplash from Mr Jerome du Bois.

It was just a matter of time, really, but the turnaround on this one was remarkably rapid.




November 4, 2004, 9:31 PM


Too bad. It's inscribed to you and everything. Perhaps I'll send it anyway to give you the pleasure of tearing it up, should that suit you.

You may not have noticed this morning that I quoted our president, with trepidation, but not with cynicism. Or perhaps you saw it and didn't recognize it as a balance against yesterday's excesses. Perhaps you thought of it as a flip-flop. But to declare "let the rift begin" - you contradict the wisdom behind one of the finest, most admirable, most humble sentiments ever uttered by the man you voted for. Sad.

William Safire, not exactly a knee-jerk peacenik, recommended that the administration follow Kerry's recommendations to retake Fallujah. Andrew Sullivan has pointed out that their war strategies are practically identical - the only difference between the two men on the war that I could detect was that Kerry hasn't expended every last shred of diplomatic credit with our allies, and could have gotten them in on the big terror-stomping party, which I support. That would have meant the war ending sooner. It would have demonstrated that yes, even the Dutch were serious about refusing to put up with terror. It wouldn't have saved TVG but it might have stopped the next brutal ideological murder.

I'm glad you can't point to anyone who was denied an abortion. Unfortnately, I can. I don't need to crunch the numbers - I'm experiencing serious threats to my personal economy - part of my gloom from yesterday, actually - and see more vultures sniffing around for carrion. And many of my fellow citizens decided on Tuesday to form our country's social agenda, at the constitutional level, around a brand of Christianity that posits for non-Christians like myself an eternity of damnation, no matter how decent a man I may be. So the domestic issues don't touch you - fine. I'm getting touched so hard I want to hit back.

9/11 made it clear that either we were going to export freedom or they were going export chaos. So the exit strategy is to install moderate governments all over the Arab crescent, by force if necessary. But I've looked at the numbers, and I don't see how we can do that without allies and without diplomacy. Here's where we find out if it works.


The Map

November 4, 2004, 9:42 PM

JdB scares me more than almost any other person in the world. But in his mind he is the ultimate patriot. How scary is that? He's the type of American that the rest of the world hates. I respect his rights and freedoms, but damn... what an ass. Sadly I think W is very much like JdB.

JdB will croak when Barack Obama becomes President in 8 or 12 years. I look forward to the day. A black guy as leader of the world... I can't wait!! Someone take a picture of JdB's face on that election day!



November 4, 2004, 10:29 PM

Contrary to what "The Map" supposes, Jerome has a brain and he knows how to use it. I, for one, do not doubt his earnestness and thoughtfulness.

It's just that he's often a tad, err..., strident in his all out attacks on the moral and intellectual integrity of those he disagrees with.

And, for what it's worth, suggesting that he is racist is uncalled for and (the best I can tell) probably ridiculously off the mark.


The Map

November 4, 2004, 11:11 PM

First, I never said that JdB lacked a brain. And I never said he didn't know how to use it.

But clearly JdB is a racist. He condems all of Islam (go look at his blog). He's a smart guy I'm sure... but smart guys can be idiots. And I think those are the scariest kind.

Read more closely Dan.


Jerome du Bois

November 5, 2004, 1:31 AM

I should have learned. I ran into this same crap on the derrida thread of this blog, where everyone, including Franklin, went running from the issue of anti-Semitism.

The Map is just a nameless twit who can't tell racism from reason. Muslims come in all ethniticies, which is well-known to the educated, so by definition my contempt cannot be racist. I condemn Islam, all right, and Orthodox Judaism -- where the men's morning prayer thanks G-d they weren't born a woman -- and misogynistic Christianity and Hinduism and Buddhism. I am what used to be called, without irony, a humanist. I believe in the sovereign individual over all. I condemn the mistreatment of women and children. Islam instituionalizes both. If you want to defend Islam, go, man -- and I'm pretty sure you're a man, Map -- go.

Franklin also cannot even spell out the name of Theodore van Gogh. He's just TVG. He was a brave man named Theodore van Gogh -- Theodore van Gogh, goddamn it! Again, this reminds me of the derrida thread -- go look! -- where I couldn't even get commenters to refer to specific people. The world is about specific people, not amorphous groups.

Franklin, I don't know what the hell you're referring to with your personal economy talk. We have already been assaulted physically for what we have written on our blog. We won't stop, though -- we've armed ourselves, so I guess Map is right to keep his head down and stay out of our town (joke) -- and we walk the streets and go about our business unmolested, so far. So my advice, however anyone is hassling you, is to hit back. Maybe you need to, because of this:

And many of my fellow citizens decided on Tuesday to form our country's social agenda, at the constitutional level, around a brand of Christianity that posits for non-Christians like myself an eternity of damnation, no matter how decent a man I may be.

Dude -- decent man, I totally agree -- just think of what the Muslims posit for you. Hell, you, like me, have grown up around born-again Christians your whole life, who in their tiny minds were holding you over the pit of Hell like a spider on a rotten stick . . . They never bothered you before. Now suddenly they're bogeymen. And the Constitution, I promise you (in the form ot the wise American populace), ain't afraid of them. I think you should have stayed in Texas just a little bit longer, heard some brimstone, grown some backbone.

Dan, what an unexpected surprise -- thank you -- which deserves an unexpected confession. Some people on this blog think I'm a hard-hearted man, but I cry real tears for this world every day I live. Every day I live, there's something or someone decent to grieve for. I will not give their murderers a moment's peace.

The name of our blog is not metaphorical. The stuff of our mortality cuts me to the heart. And I have no time for wankers who want to split hairs or stand around picking gnat shit out of pepper!

Sincerely angry,

Jerome du Bois



November 5, 2004, 1:58 AM

Franklin: our beloved mayor of Miami Beach, David Dermer, a democrat was interviewed at Republican headquarters since he was voting for Bush. WTF? He talked of disagreeing with almost everything W stood for, but stood by him on homeland security and the idea that W is better for Israel. And my neighbors are no different. So it's not only the Christian Right, it's just the Right voting this idiot into office....again.

BTW, are you making art again?


that guy in the back row

November 5, 2004, 5:33 AM

Jerome, are you some bipolar nut job? First you lavish praise on Franklin and call him the zen man, next thing I know you are blubbering and foaming at the mouth and justifying your pussy ass website about crying all day. Well howdy ho hum what's your story psycho? Get a life.

Oldpro, back to art right? I saw a stellar little DeKooning today. I'd have to say, early forties abstraction on paper, but a real zinger.



November 5, 2004, 5:53 AM

Jerome - the personal economy sentence, which now looks pretty cryptic and poorly segued, intended to say that I don't need to know what's happening in the US economy because I am currently experiencing financial problems and don't like what I see in my financial future.

I can spell Theodore Van Gogh. It's a blog. Please. When abbreviation is a crime, OCWA.

Doesn't that thing about eleven out of eleven anti-gay-marriage constitutional amendments getting passed freak you out at all? Have constitutions ever denied rights to people before? Doesn't that sound a little theocratic to you?

FWIW, I'm not going to defend Orthodox Judaism (I can't get with a God that cares one way or another whether I shave), but it is possible to read the blessing over not being born female to indicate appreciation for the physical and familial hardships women endure in life that men are largely spared. Or, it could be misogyny on parade.

Arty - boy, with Democrats like that... Just doing some drawing these days, but soon, soon, I can feel it coming back. Thanks for asking.

Map - Jerome overstates himself sometimes, but he's not a racist, and I infinitely prefer his writings to the apologetics over the Palestinians that I am occasionally obliged to read on the other side of the discussion.

Guy - I actually see a lot of myself in Jerome. I blow hot and cold too, just over a different set of issues.


Jerome du Bois

November 6, 2004, 6:42 AM


You're a well-named wimp. You belong in the pseudonymous back row with oldpro, mooning over deKooning. There's relevance for you! Meanwhile, life is bigger than art, and the grown-ups move on. Anytime you're in Phoenix and want to be reduced to painful tears, look us up, Catherine and I will teach you the new tango. Life's gotten fucking serious, and when I have to watch my ass for what I write I'm certainly not going to explain myself to a coward who won't even stand by his or her own name. So if I ever come back to this blog I sure as hell won't be addressing anyone without a real name. Asshats.


How would you like it if I said FE died today? Blog or no blog, I just want to honor people; they get little enough respect as it is. What's that line? "So many corpses roll away unrevenged."

I don't know what OCWA means.

You could be right about the Orthodox Jewish prayer. Women have always gotten the unequal burden -- they bear us, and bear us -- which is why I always want to be on their side.

You really piss me off sometimes, but you're a mensch, that's for sure.

What a day.



that guy in the back row

November 6, 2004, 7:33 AM

"Meanwhile, life is bigger than art, and the grown-ups move on."

I agree with that Jerome. People like the late Theo Van Gogh convince themselves otherwise. In this case life dealt him a shitty hand with the cards he picked. Quit crying about it and go anonymous in the future and people will stop looking at you like a crack smoking psycho.


Jerome du Bois

November 6, 2004, 7:45 AM


Why do I bother?



that guy in the back row

November 6, 2004, 8:07 AM

now thats a shitty hand, dealt. Like I said.



November 7, 2004, 5:53 AM

Once again: " Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it." Gide


Jerome du Bois

November 8, 2004, 12:07 AM

Or, how about this one, which I just ran across:

"If you've got it all together, what's all that around it?" -- Ken Kesey.




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