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more katrina

Post #616 • September 2, 2005, 5:22 PM • 65 Comments

Times like these turn one's thoughts away from art commentary.

Artsjournal has set up a Hurricane Katrina page to track news about the impact of storms on cultural institutions. Said page contains a letter from a theater company brilliantly called Swine Palace regarding an Arts United for Hurricane Relief program.

CNN does a point-by-point comparison between the platitudes issued recently from the quivering lips of FEMA chief Michael Brown and Homeland Security director Michael Chertoff on the one hand, and reality on the other. Not only should these people be fired from their jobs; they should be fired out of a cannon into the giant oil spill south of Louisiana. Homeland security, my ass.

Comment

1.

Franklin

September 2, 2005, 10:33 PM

Comments are now functioning on this post. My bad.

2.

oldpro

September 3, 2005, 8:02 AM

I heard Chertoff being interviewed on NPR yesterday. The interviewer was very insistent. At one point he pressed Chertoff about the situation at the Convention center. Chertoff squirmed and avoided and it soon became clear that he knew nothing about it, but he never owned up to it and never directly answered the questions.

A good leader has to put a good face on things, but a good leader also acknowledges what needs to be done and takes the heat without undue weaseling. This guy does not belong in that job.

And although more remains to be seen Brown looks the same. The remarks about the people being to blame - no matter what the truth may be - give away an attitude that is not compatible with that job.

3.

Elizabeth

September 3, 2005, 2:07 PM

Oldpro; your right and what these leaders have done is make a very bad situation worse. By not being honest and acting quickly and taking the attitude of 'let them fend for themselves' more people have lost their lives and 1000's more have suffered misery at the hands of the elements or through crime. This is unacceptable and they should be held accountable.
The facts as I have heard are also that the Corps of Engineers last year begged for money to shore up the levies....they got 35 million as opposed to 135 mill. They knew what was coming and were ingnored. Why does this always have to be the case?????

4.

oldpro

September 3, 2005, 3:41 PM

There will be commissions and investigations and books and exposés for years and the whole mess will be picked apart minutely. The Corps of Engineers is a very highly skilled outfit that does its best to do it right but is often just used for pork barrel projects. If Now Orleans lost that money i suspect it was 100% politics and had little to do with the merits. But I guarantee you the question will be asked and answered in time to come.

5.

George

September 3, 2005, 5:17 PM

The comments here seem to follow the general opinions being expressed elsewhere in the country and the world for that matter. I'm going to push the discussion in a slightly different direction because I'm not sure I have anything else to say that hasn't already been said

This might be a stretch but I'm wondering if this disaster, linked up with the war in Iraq and 911, might be having a psychological affect on the zeitgeist and as a result on art.

Just the questioning here, "how can this happen?" is in itself an expression of anger and dismay caused by events which appear increasingly chaotic. Our sense of perceived social order is being tested and this is a source of anxiety. So looking back over the four years since 911 is there evidence of what I am referring to in the bodies of art being produced? I suspect there might be a parallel with the Vietnam war ere, different of course but at that time there was great social unrest. So I am questioning, how does art deal with these events, not as "issues" but in the undercurrent of decisions which accumulate into a final work. Here in NYC I noticed an increasing complexity in painting pushing on chaos. This would be one characteristic I would expect but at the same time I would also expect an opposite reaction towards structure, order.

Maybe, I'm off base with this idea but it's something I've been mulling around in my head for awhile.

If that won't change the subject, what are you all reading?

6.

Elizabeth

September 3, 2005, 5:43 PM

George Im saddened upset feeling helpless (sending money to red cross doesnt alleviate, but is at least something). OldPro is right, heads will roll for this one. And your not far off in your thinking that all this chaos does indeed have a psycological effect on everyone, artists included who may or may not be expressing it through their art, but I would guess they are. 911 was shocking, it was two buildings and an attack on a city....but this is bigger, its a entire city lost....surreal..........
Im sewing and reading and painting and trying not to imagine a place where I am not and cannot be and wish I could help.
Im now reading three books Jonathan safran Foer, who I think is brilliant and a wunderkid...his 'Everything is Illuminated' was just magic for me...and his new book is just as good. The movie of Everything is coming out soon as I knew it would be made into a movie, but Im sure it wont rival the book at all. The other book is a bio of Marie Antoinette who it turns out never said "let them eat cake" and was actually quite a sweet kind woman who was really keep cloistered and tried to reach out to people but wasnt allowed as a woman to do that because it wasnt appropriate.........so......they all lost their heads in the end.

7.

oldpro

September 3, 2005, 6:35 PM

Interesting speculaton, George. I think about things like this but the thoughts always dead-end on the inaccessibility of clear connection.

The typical observation, like "painting is chaotic, things are chaotic", not only lacks any visible causal or underlying links but usually can be pulled up and read any way one wants to, eg "painting is simple and orderly because that's what people want in this chaotic time", or whatever.

They lack foundation, clarity and verifiability.

8.

George

September 3, 2005, 6:36 PM

#6 E. I'll agree that the destruction of New Orleans is bigger. I live in NYC and 911 was confined to relatively small area with, relatively speaking, little displacement of the residents. The shear numbers of refugees from hurricane Katrina, especially since they are being dispersed across the southern part of the country by the relief effort, will spread, up close and personally, their emotional anxieties in a way not possible in the mass media.

Still, I am seeing this as another event affecting the zeitgeist since 911. I am not thinking about it in the sense of response, that is something else, I might or I might not respond. I'm thinking more about the unseen, a psychological perturbance which has a subtle but broad effect on the culture and what it produces. In a sense it is not so much what you do but the feeling expressed in your remark "I wish I could help" I suspect this single sentence has been uttered repeatedly over the last few days.

It's not about whatever action you take to alleviate the desire to help but the helplessness inherent in the remark. The gestalt of the media presentations this week were about the "lack of control", about disorder, about anarchy and about what appeared to be our apparent inability to cope with this problem, as a nation. Some of that is passing as the impressive logistical effort lead by the military is making itself felt. Still, for days it was a grimy "survival of the fittest" scene from a B movie, a scene we never think will really happen to us and I thought about that.

All these things go bump in the night, shadows in the dark, while they might be mollified by turning them into "art issues", they won't just go away. It is this type of emotional unrest, like the despair of a brutal war which fostered Dada, which can act as a undertow to an era by pushing attitudes and changing the questions. For the most part, this will all be ignored but on a social level it will have an affect visible in retrospect.

9.

oldpro

September 3, 2005, 7:05 PM

George, I think that shared attitudes or "zeitgeist" is one of the most potent driving forces in human life. I just don't think we can pin it down. As often as not the "zeitgeist" influences the events that influence the "zeitgeist".

10.

George

September 3, 2005, 7:08 PM

#7 Op. I understand what you are getting at. I didn't want to be held to tightly to the chaotic observation but I needed an example. At the time of 911, in discussions at the local bar, I suggested that that event would change the arts. I couldn't say exactly how other than to suggest that the cutesy, intellectually obscure installation art was struck a death blow by an "installation" with100 feet of 8-1/2 x11, laser copies, of family snapshots, of the missing. This was the real deal, just about anything in a gallery paled by comparison.

I still think this process is ongoing, with the current tragedy as another piece of the puzzle. My hunch is that in spite of the current market driven excesses the results of these events should start becoming visible. My reasoning has less to do with the actual timeline of events and is based on an assumption that the younger artists, naïve in a positive way, with no career territory to defend, are more subject to moving in the current. I understand the difficulty in trying to pin this down specifically but I would offer up a statement made by New Orleans mayor, Ray Nagin yesterday "Where's the beef?" That is the question for art as well.

11.

George

September 3, 2005, 8:50 PM

Since I asked, my latest reads,

Duchamp, a biography by Calvin Tompkins. It's an interesting tale of the era, skip the first 5-6 pages if your squeamish about theory.

Jackson Pollock, biography by Naifeh & Smith. Interesting as a biography and a bit depressing because he was so screwed up.

The Alchemist, by Paulo Coelho, a second reading based on a NYT article on his next book. I had it so I read it again to pass the time. TV's broken.

The Man Without Qualities, by Robert Musil. Just started this, So far I'm reading at a rate where I'll finish it in a year. Fat, 1500 pages of beautiful writing. German density. ($$$. go to the library)

Collected Fictions by Jorge Borges. A used bookstore find. The street booksellers tell me Borges never stays long. Short stories to fit the mood.

Residence on Earth, by Pablo Neruda, A complete bilingual collection of poems. I read the Spanish with my left eye and the English with my right but my left eye is blurry and my Spanish is poor so English will do.

12.

Elisabeth

September 3, 2005, 10:52 PM

A friend writes,
If you've been trying to find an organization which
does not pay its CEO big salaries and which is not
religious, I want to suggest Baton Rouge Area
Foundation (www.braf.org). The city of Baton Rouge
has DOUBLED in size with the exodus from New Orleans.
The Foundation has two components - money for the
displaced, money for restoration. (There are sites
for helping rebuild the museums etc, but right now
helping people is most urgent.)
Please consider a donation to this or any other group
helping the people in the South who have lost
everything.
-
Since 9/11, Walter Benjamin's Work of Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproducability and his conclusion that war will replace art as the ultimate spectacle (shock and awe) seems particularly germane.
.

13.

Elizabeth

September 3, 2005, 11:04 PM

hello to Elisabeth from Elizabeth.
thats a great idea to support that foundation, all the surrounding cities need help adjusting to the influx of new citizens as it will take months if not years to rebuild New Or.

14.

George

September 3, 2005, 11:13 PM

The federal spin doctors move in saying "it's their fault" (note Friday)

15.

George

September 4, 2005, 7:44 PM

I can't resist, here is the classic example of "double talk"

"Federal authorities say there is blame enough to go around. In a news conference yesterday, Chertoff cautioned against "finger-pointing" and said no one had been equipped to handle what amounted to two simultaneous disasters -- the hurricane and subsequent levee break"

(source Wash Post) p.4

16.

asesino

September 4, 2005, 11:17 PM

What's happening in New Orleans right now is another example of the imperial disregard that characterizes the reign of Bush II, a climate of racism, classism and vulgar opportunism insidious precisely because it is inherent. The underlying corruption and inequity generally goes unquestioned (when not disregarded or actively hidden) within the arrogant precincts of the current administration, unless something like Katrina comes up to bitch slap them in public.

I was in Miami when Katrina hit (as a category 1) and went without power for 33 hours. For others in Dade County, it took much longer. Still, this was nothing compared to the damage the storm unleashed in the Gulf (as a category 5). How did it gain so much power, and so quickly, after leaving Florida? Could it be the superheated waters of the Gulf of Mexico? Part of the global warming denied by Bush II. His favoring of corporate profit over individual welfare (as in the invasion of Iraq) endangers us all. The blacks (and whites) left homeless and bereft in N.O. are the most obvious recent victims of Bush II. But we all suffer under his complacent disregard.

17.

jordan

September 5, 2005, 12:45 AM

- and yet where I live, people where bold enouph to remove my RUBBER bush mask from my front yard previously to the el...
- are' nt the huricanes driven by manual joystick opperations from elsewhere(s) anyhow?

18.

jordan

September 5, 2005, 12:50 AM

Pollack had hated that he had become a puppet, thats all.

19.

Elizabeth

September 5, 2005, 1:02 AM

Im Canadian , so speaking as an outsider, Bush did the right thing in taking Sadam Hussien OUT. He was a tryrannical DICTATOR and he, his family and his CRONIES commited mass MURDERS, RAPES, TORTURE AND LETS NOT FORGET THE GASSING OF THE KURDS......DOES THIS NOT SOUND JUST A LITTLE REMINISCENT OF OH ....HMMMM WHAT WAS HIS NAME AGAIN??? OH YES........HITLER!!
Im not going to debate the oil issues or the lack of weapons of mass distruction.....He was a mass murderer holding a entire country hostage for far too long.
The feeling I have of Americans is this...they POLICE the world and its not fair, other countries should and must do more. But you all should be proud, the courage and great hearts of Americans are unparalled in my books....doesnt matter black or white, dem or repub. You have a great country and the best people in the world.

20.

asesino

September 5, 2005, 9:08 AM

Canada enjoys an established client state relationship with the USA, and a long, historically undefended border. Then again, you are rich in natural resources. We can only hope that a pretext for regime change in Canada is not advanced by the Bush II regime. Halliburton or KBR could always use the work of reestablishing your infrastructure once the Mission is Accomplished.

21.

luisa

September 5, 2005, 11:20 PM

Elizabeth,
Why just go after Hussein and not Hu Jintao of China where human rights are constantly violated or Castro....well let me see....Castro has no oil and we do business with China...mmmm ......not convenient...oh wait....what about Sudan? Why bother? I can go on and on....
Iraq was easy target and has oil!

22.

Elizabeth

September 6, 2005, 12:10 AM

23.

Elizabeth

September 6, 2005, 12:21 AM

Luisa; Bull, the surrounding Arab countries have plenty of oil, that wasnt the issue. Saddam invading his neighbour Kuwait and seeting fires seen in outer space and gassing and murdering 1000's of innocent Kurdish citizens, his own people being murdered , tortured and repressed for decades MIGHT have just alittle something to do with Americas decision...........sheesh rolling eyes ..please read my comment above.
As for China, get real!!!! Do you seriously think that any world leader would shake up the status quo with China and their nukes over Human rights???!!!!
And no, you dont go into China except diplomatically according to your idea and force them to change their policy on human rights, since well lets see now???? Hmmmmmm they do have one of the worlds largest stock pile of nukes and they are a seriously nationalistic people....hmmmm again lets see if we go with your suggestion Human rights versus Nuclear War with China? oh yes lets do go in with guns blazing , just brilliant.......

24.

Elizabeth

September 6, 2005, 12:42 AM

lets also add that Saddam was an open supporter of Hamas and Alquieda, you do remember 911 dont you??
As for Castro, the world leaders have their hands full right now in London, Madrid, New York, Bali..etc...with their citizens being blow apart on their way to work each day!!!! He isnt a threat, accept it, the Cold War is over I do believe.
So in the big picture of threats to North America and Europe I think you need to realize that the leaders have REALLLLLLLLL priorities and the fact that they are busy dealing with Muslim/Arab terrorists trying to destabilize the WORLD is KINDOF JUST A TEENSIE
WEENSIE BIT MORE IMPORTANT THEN A GERIATRIC DICTATOR WHO IS ALONE IN THE WORLD NOW WITHOUT RUSSIA .
We can list alot of countries that need help and a strong hand, either through political solutions or as in the case of Rowanda, an army solution.
Saddam used chemicals to kill the Kurds and America knew that it was only a matter of time b4 he would attempt an attack on Israel, which he did during his invasion of Kuwait. If he had sent chemicals to Israel during that war (scuds missiles were dropping all over Israel btw) you can bet Israel would have nuked him. America knew this was a possibilty and pre-empted Israel.
Its too complicated to debate in type form , suffice it to say America knew it was only a matter of a very short time till Saddam would be removed....considering the politics in the part of the world.
America has saved the Iraqi people and has given them a chance at democracy.

25.

Elizabeth

September 6, 2005, 1:04 AM

Luisa; on a personal note, I wont be debating politics here again, I have had my fill with explaining the Pharisees today.
My time sadly being divided between the art I live for and love and politics. Making history catching the British Gov. and the Bank of England redhanded as thieves of stolen Holocaust Gold and Loot to the tune of 100's of millions is a tad distracting .
At least Art, my art and the appreciation and sheer pleasure of others art has saved my soul from total despair.

26.

GentleReader

September 6, 2005, 3:42 PM

Michael Brown.

Now well known Poster boy for the ramifications of appointing non-qualified cronies to important posts.....

Has anyone else noticed that Brown is also dead-ringer for Jon Lovitz playing his character "The Lying Guy" on Saturday Night Live?

Once again, life imitates art.

27.

Matty

September 6, 2005, 4:27 PM

Elizabeth, I don't want to argue the point with you, so please don't feel that you have to defend your position to me... but, as I'm a Canadian outsider too, I thought I'd offer a different perspective to the readers here. Whereas the U.S. is built upon the right to 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness', up here in Canada, our big three are "peace, order, and good government'.

The fact that Hussein was a bad guy who deserved to face justice is not something anyone would argue against... but this does not lead to the conclusion that Bush 'did the right thing'.

The invasion of Iraq, when looked at in the context of 'justice for Saddam', amounts to nothing more than vigilante justice, but on a huge scale. But sure, if you don't care about the rule of law, then maybe this kind of justice, any kind of justice, suits your purpose. Fine. Saddam's in the clink. Good.

But then you have to consider, outside of the narrow 'justice for Saddam' context, of the wider context. Did you know 9 out of 10 victims of modern warfare are women and children? That's a big price to pay for justice.

On TV, I watched the Sept. 2001 tragedy in horror. 2 years later, I watched the bombing of Bagdad, in equal horror. Buildings blowing up in an urban center undoubtedly have associated innocent casualties, regardless of what city it is, or the religion of its citizens.

This is not justice, in my eyes, or in the eyes of the majority of the world, including (thankfully) the majority of Canadians and our Canadian govt..

28.

Elizabeth

September 6, 2005, 5:55 PM

Matty, fine, I dont need to argue any points and will just reply to what I think needs attention; firstly I speak for myself and no one else, I also respect very much peoples right their opinions. I enjoy a good debate when Im in the MOOD and the person or persons have some or better then SOME background on the subject. We base our opinions on many factors, life experience, education etc etc. Thats why I stand by my words 100 percent and wont back track on anything I have said above or elsewhere unless Im shown with a powerful arguement that Im wrong, But Im not.
Im always open to reading and learning and certainly knowing if I was wrong. Id like to add that I have "lived" in the region and know it well....Israel, and when you do that you can get really up close and personal with life and the issues of surviving there, the mindset of the Arabs in the region, as well as the Israelis.
that said Im not wrong and stand by my every word here.

Its not vigilante justice at all to take out Saddam h.
In the context of what was unfolding then and b4 the war in Kuwait, America could do no less then TAKE HIM OUT. Im only surprised it took them as long as it did.
If America was about vigilante justice, why didnt the invade and then kill Quadafi, they had reason, he gave ample reason....but they didnt because they Dont invade and arrest on a whim.
reread above what I wrote about Saddams crimes. America and the rest of the world should have stepped in when he chemically Gassed the Kurdish people. Innocant men women and children. btw, the People of Iraq are free now, its not secure yet because they have to LEARN to live in a democracy and they will in time, but now they are free, go ask them if theyre grateful!
And yes Matty I do know all of what you have written above. Lets talk about the 25 million Russians who perished because of Hitler then, or the one million Jewish children under the age of 13 who were gassed then cremated by the Germans. Or Rowandas genocide, while General Romeo Delaire was crying out to the United Nations to send support and to stop the murgering of innocents.
There will always be murders of innocents, there always has been and there always will be. At least America had the guts to stop one Madman, to say nothing of their sacrifices during World War 2 in Taking Hitler OUT.. So yes America does police the world and thank God for them.
Theres always a price to pay for pay for Justice Matty, I would think you knew this.
Since 911 we are dealing with new ANIMAL, WORLD Terrorism, that is based not just on Muslim/Arab reaction to world politics. We are now fighting a New Fascism, the Muslim extremism which is behind this terrorism we know, knows NO boders and must be fought on many levels. TAKING OUT THE SUPPORTERS ( Saddam Hussein was a full supporter) is just one battle in this New World War.
The Only Potent response to to terror is force, decisive and direct.
and in some cases but often not, retraint, as in the case of how THEY handled Quadafi ( a very minor dictator and also a full supporter of world terrorism; he backed and facilitated the bombing of the airliner that crashed over Lockerbe Scotland).
I watched live also, in sheer and utter horror as the planes went into the Towers, and lived in Israel and was almost blown up myself a few times, the market place, a desert resort and at a taxi stand. Each time, luckily then they were JUST bombs, not suicide bombers YET, and could be blown up by robots without loss of life. Then fast forward to London this year and my 22 year old daughter was there with her university friends and it never ends. One thing we cant do is shrink back from the fact THEY are not stopping and see this as a Holy war against US.
And we must not be filled with anxiety that a hard and violent response from us to their violence makes us morally indistinguishable from THEM!!
as an aside and a very good example of force plus restraint and timely action is the Israeli sending in MIG's into Iraq, in a quick strike that took minutes and blowing to smithereeeeeeeeeens the so called Atomic Plant that Saddam Hussein had almost up and running with the "HELP" of Russian and FRENCH Scientists ( another reason here to spit on the French, the Russians already have a reputation) and all were killed, flattened in minutes. The World leaders were condeming Israel violently for this attack and the deaths of those scientists, boohoo, but Israel stood behind this action for mere fact that are and were targets of Saddam Husseins and would be damned if they were going to wait till he has nukes to send over....or rely on any other country to protect them....look at the protection and defense WE (Jews) got during Hitlers reign!!!! Then again fast forward to Saddam invading sacking burning murdering looting in Kuwait and all of a sudden its whew glad he doesnt have nukes at least, thanks very much Israel....( rolling my eyes).
Dont ever expect Justice Matty, to bad my father isnt here to tell you how he lived through 2 world wars and never saw JUSTICE. justice is an illusion.

29.

Elizabeth

September 6, 2005, 6:03 PM

Matty ; damn that was a long one hahaha sorry...but u asked for it lol

30.

Elizabeth

September 6, 2005, 6:20 PM

'asked for it' in the context of a needed response

31.

Matty

September 6, 2005, 7:26 PM

No worries Elizabeth... of course I understand that you only speak for yourself, just as I only speak for myself. That's all anyone can do. Your viewpoint is clearly as a passionate participant involved directly and personally in these issues. Mine is as someone looking in on the issue from the outside, not identifying with one side or the other.
Like I said, I'm just adding my viewpoint to the discussion.

Art's so much more enjoyable to argue about than politics... probably because art isn't as important as politics.

I hope you still like the blue one.

32.

Elizabeth

September 6, 2005, 7:54 PM

Matty, one day soon Id like to buy the 'Blue one', I adore what you and the others are doing there and think all of you should be here in Toronto and seen in a big way.
Yes, sadly my lifes destiny has thrown me into the path of politics very early as a child of a Holocaust survivor. The case against the Brits and the Bank of England has taken me from art work and Im upset at the distraction, but it cant be helped, one thing I have learned is you HAVE TO MAKE JUSTICE HAPPEN..YOU CANT SIT AROUND WAITING FOR IT
I really think the way you and Ahab and the rest have come together is so wonderful. You get to debate discuss and veiw eachothers work and progress. I really wish you all lived here in Toronto and Im firm in that you all need to be seen here.
Matty, I have known I was an artist since I was very small, its all I have ever wanted and loved about the world and it makes the world a better place to be. Just think, without art what would the world look like?
Those cave walls would just be cave walls, rocks. ( dont worry, Im not restarting my silly cave stories hehe). But seriously, artists make this world make sense....in so many ways to so many people in so many forms.
Its a honour to know you, and Ahab, all the others and even George (cyberally speaking), your all very special people.

33.

Elizabeth

September 6, 2005, 8:13 PM

Matty; not to restart the politics, because Im getting tired haha...but we as canadians are a peaceful people. We are the 'peace keepers', its just that its not realistic in the world as it stands now......the world is better in some places and worse in others. But the essence of good people like us fighting, careing to keep the world safe is what matters in the end. I guess all Im trying to say is dont expect justice or think it will happen without a strong voice and some force.
My heart aches for Gen. Romeo Delaire, he is haunted now by his role and helplessness in Rowanda......and he is a man of the highest calibre.
His is an example of a voice crying out for justice and was ignored. Im proud hes Canadian.

34.

luisa

September 7, 2005, 2:34 AM

Elizabeth,
Of course we cannot invade China…pleaseee…. I mentioned it as an example because according to you, we went to war because Hussein was a “bad man”…well there are many like him and in my opinion more dangerous. After the Kuwait war, Iraq was contained with the “no flight zone” and inspections for wmd were coordinated constantly.

Congress approved the war because the Bush administration made us/them believe that H. had wmd…(not because he was a bad man) and then they started scaring us by making unproved connections between H. and 9/11 terrorists….and that the USA will be more secure, etc….

Are we more secured? No. Look at what is going on in the Gulf of Mexico….a super hurricane that everybody knew it was coming…. but yet, we were not prepared or secured…Now, imagine a surprise hit by terrorists….

35.

Elizabeth

September 7, 2005, 4:56 AM

Luisa; after this I will not debate with you because you are incredibly uneducated politically and simply simpleminded when it comes toyour statements.
Your the one who brought up Cina and human rights not me, that said, then ........what....of course we cant invade INVADE CHINA DUH!!!!!!!
I SAID IT SARCASTICALLY IN RESPONSE TO THE RIDICULOUSNESS OF YOU EVEN BRINGING IT UP IN THE CONTEXT OF INVADING AND STOPPING ABUSES IN THE WORLD......SHEEEEEEEEEEESH.
YOUR UNREAL YOU KNOW, you say I said Saddam Hussein was a "BAD MAN"...........NO I SAID HE WAS AN INSANE DICTATOR WHO GASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSED AN ENTIRE PEOPLE.....THE IRAQI KURDS.
GO READ ABOUT IT AND GET AN EDUCATION SINCE YOU ARE SORELY UNINFORMED.
HE WAS IN THE PROCESS OF BUILDING NUCLEAR WEAPONS AND ISRAEL , HIS UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL NEIGHBOUR PUT A QUICK STOP TO THAT BY BLOWING IT OFF THE FACE OF THE EARTH. IF A FEW FRENCH AND RUSSIAN SCIENTISTS GOT BLOWN TO BITS....ASK ME IF I CARE, NOTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!
YOU HAVE TO BE SERIOUSLY KIDDING ABOUT THE NO FLY ZONE.
SHEEEEEEEEEEEEESH ROLLING MY EYES AT YOUR NAIVETE' OR SIMPLEMINDEDNESS AGAIN.
SADDAM CONSISTENTLY WITHOUT FAIL BROKE THAT RULE AND WE KNOW FOR A FACT THAT HE DID HAVE CHEMICAL WEAPONS SINCE DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
HE KILLED THOUSANDS OF INNOCENT MEN WOMEN AND CHILDREN
THE KURDSSSSSSSSSSSSSS (YELLING) THERE WAS A SYSTEMATIC CAMPAIGN OF CHEMICAL EXTERMINATION AND GENOCIDE WAGED AGAINST THE KURDISH POPULATION OF NORTHERN IRAQ BETWEEN 1987-1988.
YESSSSSSSSSS HE WAS A 'BAD MAN' ..DUHHHHH.....HOW SIMPLE YOU ARE!!
AND DURING THE WAR INNNNNNNNNNNNN KUWAIT, ISRAEL WAS BARRAGED BY SCUD MISSILES THAT CAUSED THE ENTIRE POPULATION TO GO ABOUT WITH GAS MASKS................................
HERE AGAIN YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU NEEED AN EDUCATION.
ROOMS IN ISRAELI HOMES WERE VACUUM SEALED AND BABIES WERE PUT INTO SPECIAL CRIBS THAT WERE SEALED PLASTIC WITH A GAS FILTER ATTACHED FOR THE AIR TO CIRCULATE.
SO, WOWWWWWWWWWWWWW....DUH, YES!!! SADDAM WAS A 'BAD MAN' AS YOU SAID. IF HE HAD BEEN 'ALLOWED BY ISRAEL TO HAVE A NUCLEAR PROGRAM AND IF HE HAD SENT EVEN ONE SCUD INTO ISRAEL CONTAINING EVEN A SPECK OF BIO OR CHEMICAL AGENT.........ISRAEL WOULD HAVE NUKED IRAQ OFF THE PLANET.
I DO NOT SAY THIS LIGHTLY....THESE ARE FACTS, EACH SCUD THAT LANDED IN ISRAEL WAS CHECKED AND DOUBLE CHECKED FOR THESE AGENTS. THATS WHYYYYYYYYYYYY THE AMERICANS SENT PATRIOT MISSILES TO ISRAEL TO SHOOT DOWN THE SCUDS SO ISRAEL WOULDNT JUMP INTO THE ACTION, EVEN THOUGH THEY HAD EVERY RIGHT TO SINCE THEY WERE BEING BOMBED.
THE PATRIOT MISSILES DIDNT DO THE JOB, BUT IT WAS A DIPLOMATIC GESTURE DONE TO ASK ISRAEL TO SHOW RETRAINT, WHICH THEY AMAZINGLY DID. BUT TRUST ME WHEN I SAY THIS; HAD THERE BEEN CHEM'S OR BIO ON THOSE SCUDS SENT INTO ISRAEL, SADDAM HUSSEIN KNEW HE WOULD BE FACING ISRAEL'S NUKES.
MY TAKE IS HE COULDNT GAMBLE WITH A SURE THING.
REREAD MY WORDS ABOVE OR GO OUT AND ACTUALLY READ AND GET EDUCATED B4 YOU DECIDE TO COMMENT.
IM ALSO STRUCK BY YOUR SIMPLE APPROACH TO THIS ENTIRE SUBJECT AND HOW YOU BASICALLY ARE JUST REPEATING TO ME WHAT THE SOUNDBITES OFF THE 6 PM NEWS MIGHT SOUND LIKE.
IF THATS HOW YOU SEE POLITICS THEN PLEASE GO DISCUSS IT WITH MORE VACUOUS PEOPLE LIKE YOURSELF WHO JUST REPEAT LIKE PARROTS WHAT THEY HEAR. DONT TRY IT WITH ME. PLEASEEEEEEEEEE.
SMILE.
THE INSPECTIONS WERE FLAWED FROM DAY ONE.
THE FIRST INSPECTOR SENT BY UNSCOM WITHDREW FROM IRAQ IN THE FACE OF IRAQI REFUSAL TO COOPERATE, AND HARASSMENT AND WAS QUOTED REGULARLY THAT THEY WERE CHASING TRUCKS ALL OVER IRAQ IN A CAT AND MOUSE GAME.
WHAT A CROCK OF SHIT TO PUT UP WITH A MADMAN WHO GASSES HIS OWN PEOPLE, MURDERS 100'S OF THOUSANDS OF IRAQIS NOW BEING DUG UP IN MASS GRAVES FROM THE DECADES OF THIS TYRANTS TIME IN POWER AND YOUR THE ONE SPOUTING TO ME ABOUT HUMAN RIGHTS HAHAHAHAHA.SHEEEEEEEEEEEEESH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THE IRAQI SCIENTIST IN CHARGE OF HIS CHEMICAL PROGRAMS WAS ARRESTED AND WILL GO ON TRIAL AS THE NAZI'S DID FOR WAR CRIMES AND CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY.
" IT HAS NEVER HAPPENED IN HISTORY THAT A NATION THAT HAS WON A WAR HAS BEEN HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR ATROCITIES COMMITTED IN PREPARING FOR AND WAGING THAT WAR. WE INTEND TO MAKE THIS ONE DIFFERENT. WHAT TOOK PLACE WAS THE USE OF TECHNOLOGICAL MATERIAL TO DESTROY A DEFENSELESS COUNTRY. FROM 125,000 TO 300,000 PEOPLE WERE KILLED....WE RECOGNIZE OUR ROLE IN HISTORY IS TO BRING THE TRANSGRESSORS TO JUSTICE." RAMSEY CLARK.
AS FOR CONGRESS, THEY KNEW FULL WELL THAT SADDAM HUSSEIN WAS AN ARDENT SUPPORTER OF TERRORISM. THATS A FACT.
LOOK IT UP!
WHAT WOULD U HAVE CONGRESS DO......HMM LETS SEE, MAYBE YOU WOULD INVITE THE TERRORISTS TO DINNER ???
DUH OF COURSE THEY HAD TO STOP HIM AND TAKE HIM OUT OF POWER.
QUITE FRANKLY, IF YOU PULL SOUNDBITES OFF THE 5 MINUTE NEWS AT 6 OCLOCK , YOUR JUST TOO VACUOUS AND UNEDUCATED TO DEBATE WITH.
DO YOU THINK THAT THE PRESIDENT AND CONGRESS DONT HAVE INSIDE INFORMATION ON ALL THE NETWORKS OF TERRORIST ORGANIZATIONS THAT SADDAM WAS CONNECTED TO AND SUPPORTING WITH THE BILLIONS IN OIL REVENUE.?????
DO YOU THINK THAT THE MOSSAD DOESNT SHARE AND TELL THE AMERICANS WHAT HE WAS UP TO AND WITH WHO.???????
BUT AS YOU SAY, SADDAM WAS "JUST" A "BAD MAN" AND ITS OK (ACCORDING TO YOUR TAKE ON IT) THAT HE ONLY KILLED THIS MANY 100'S OF THOUSANDS WITH POISEN GAS AND ONLY INVADED "ONE" INNOCENT COUNTRY , KUWAIT AND ONLY SET FIRES THAT COULD BE SEEN IN OUTER SPACE.!!!!!!!!!
BUT AS YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
SAY HE WAS "JUST" A "BAD MAN".
WRITE ME AGAIN WILL YOU AFTER YOU GROW SOME SMARTS.

36.

ELIZABETH

September 7, 2005, 5:11 AM

MATTY; The Americans went with liberty, because they had the guts and the smarts to kick the Brits out...we stayed colonized!!!
It took Trudeau to liberate us and we still have her face on our money, yuch!!
Can you tell that Im not a monarchist???

Franklin: apology to you for adding to the political debate here, I will restrain myself at all costs, even when luiisa comments, out of respect to you and your wonderful blog.

37.

luisa

September 7, 2005, 11:25 AM

Elizabeth,
First, you need to re-read the guidelines of this blog. Stop calling me names. I don’t know about you, but I am very educated with a Masters from Yale University. But YOU, you sound like a hysterical freak. Your typing/writing is out of control by repeating over and over again the same insults and statements that might come from the Bush camp. Definitely, it needs to be edited badly and a good English course will do you good.

My statements about attacking China (and other countries with bad leaders), were meant to be sarcastic because you said: “Bush did the right thing in taking Sadam Hussien OUT. He was a tryrannical DICTATOR”.

Even Col. Colin Powell admitted that he was misled. Are you making me believe that you know more than he does? Give me a break! You are the one who needs to read and get really informed and educated. And yes, my statements are simple but specific and well informed.

Relax…. peace.

38.

Matty

September 7, 2005, 12:33 PM

Elizabeth:
Sorry, but you can't buy the blue one (unless its current owner wants to sell it to you)... besides, it's twenty feet high... where would you put it?

Also, I think you went a little overboard with luisa, to an extent which definitely does not help your argument here. I happen to agree with luisa's comments, but would sincerely hope not to have to endure the sort of verbal assault that you laid on her.
Besides, nobody likes reading a long post in all caps.

39.

asesino

September 7, 2005, 2:48 PM

Invasion of canada imminent. As Ronnie, grand daddy to Bush II once put it, with a smirk, "We begin bombing in five minutes."

40.

Elizabeth

September 7, 2005, 3:36 PM

Luisa, take a look at the late hour I wrote it and decided I didnt care to edit because argueing with a simple minded person is pointless.
And that insult about needing an english course is just nonsense, I have a right to be angry when a person such as yourself knows so little,yet has the temerity to make such ridiculous sweeping statements about countries and issues you clearly are clueless about.
And NO, I dont need anymore degrees, my degree from OCA and my Masters from York U. both here in Toronto suit me just fine, thanks very much.
I stand by my comments and hope you have gleaned some knowledge from what I told you that you couldnt get off 5 minutes with CNN.
As for that part of the world,hat You obviously know nothing about, will thank Bush for the freedom hard won and a chance to actually live in a democratic country that will be held up as an example to the rest of the Arab countries in the region; like Syria Saudi Arabia Egypt etc etc....
Im infuriated at people like you who spout human rights yet when a dictator is removed, cry foul or say "look at all the other countries" we need to fix such as your genius example of Castro. Last time I checked he isnt hooked up with any suicide bombers trying to get into North America or Europe.
In fact Luisa, if it was up to you and the rest that think like you Hussein would have those nukes he wanted so badly up and running.
You are just plainly simple minded.


Matty; I have a place for something that big, but thats great that its being appreciated and giving pleasure.
Its a wonderful peice and I was very taken with it....the colour just Amps it up.

41.

Franklin

September 7, 2005, 3:43 PM

Address the writing, not the writer.

42.

Elizabeth

September 7, 2005, 3:46 PM

Luisa; btw that Colin Powell comment was just silly, he said he was mislead about the WMD and thats IT. Everything I said regarding the issues is correct and you do need to get an education in politics that doesnt come off soundbites on TV.
Also, Im Canadian, Im not a "Bush" supporter, but anyone who gets rid of a Hitler or a Saddam Hussein has courage and brains and unlike you, actually cares about the 100's of thousands of people being murder.
And please do me a favour and expand your vision, saying its about oil all the time is just silly......at this moment oil is being sent to the US from here to help in your time of need. There is oil everywhere, the Arab countries, us, south america, its not the drama excuse you make it out to be.....that also must have come off CNN.

43.

Elizabeth

September 7, 2005, 3:49 PM

I hear you Franklin, and please excuse the typos, when Im angry I dont bother about checking !!!!!

44.

catfish

September 7, 2005, 3:50 PM

Elizabeth, you said Im infuriated at people like you who spout human rights yet when a dictator is removed, cry foul. Removing the dictator was essentially good and everyone should recognize that, but take a look at life for the typical Iraqi and the picture changes. The anarchy we saw for a few days in New Orleans was similar to what goes on in Bagdad all the time since we installed "freedom". If I had to live in one of the Arab countries, Iraq would occupy the absolute bottom of my list. If that country is an "an example to the rest of the Arab countries in the region; like Syria Saudi Arabia Egypt" then I suspect they, like me, would conclude from this example to leave things as they are, bad as that might be.

45.

catfish

September 7, 2005, 3:54 PM

asesino: If #39 was meant to be funny, please note that it did not succeed.

46.

Luisa

September 7, 2005, 7:54 PM

There you go again, Elizabeth. It is indeed impossible for you to write a comment without insulting the writer. Don’t tell me again that I don’t know anything about politics and that you do. It is so arrogant of you.

I am aware of every thing just like you but with different points of view. I am a “human rights” activist especially for my country of birth Cuba and now joining the cause for Sudan, which by the way, mass murders are occurring as we speak. But invading a country in a forceful way is not right. There are more diplomatic and effective ways of dealing with these problems. War brings more misery and war should be the last option.

I am just stating my views and I thank God that I live in the greatest country in where my opinion is respected without insults. But you, you always sound irritated and with a lot of rudeness. Where are your manners? It is impossible to have a civilize exchange of ideas and views with you.

Accept and respect the fact that the majority of the people in the world think that we were misled with the Iraq war.

47.

Elizabeth

September 7, 2005, 9:10 PM

Catfish; the Iraqi people today can vote freely, they can look forward to democracy growing and taking hold and yes it will take years, Rome or Iraq wasnt built in a day.
The Iraqi people arent being murdered and tortured by a sadistic Dictator, but are 'fighting' a daily fight to make their country a place of freedom for their children and grandchildren and all the generations to come.
Why do you think it happens overnight?????.............it just simply doesnt!!
These people have to Learn',they have never known real freedom, they have to grow into it and all the while they have to fight the extremists who would have another dictator like SH put in faster then you can say your own name.
As for the other Arab countries in the region, YES this is an example for them, of course it is and the leaders there are shaking in their boots or sandals, because it means empowerment/knowledge to a people who have never known such a thing as a free voice.
Speak out today and say the wrong thing in Syria or Egypt and see how fast you would be arrested and imprisoned/tortured/killed.
Speak out in Saudi Arabia and say the wrong thing and you risk your tongue being cut out or your head chopped off.......so NO, the Status Quo isnt good enough anymore for these people. They know it and we know it!!
We now live in an age where the computers facilitate an open exchange of ideas of freedom and democracy in a way that can be done safely and without the prying eyes of the gov. These people are learning and wanting great changes , but more importantly they are becoming aware and empowered by knowing there is freedom (such as it is) out there in this world and they want IT. I also would add that women there probably want it even more. Its an awakening that we are witnessing.
I stand by my words.

48.

Elizabeth

September 7, 2005, 9:41 PM

Luisa; GOOD for YOU.
Whats happening in Sudan is what happened in Rowanda, same scenario. Genocide......it never ends does it and its great that you feel you can help, more power to you. But sadly, I defy anyone like "you" or any "group" to go into Sudan and stop it !
It took America, Russia, Canada , Australia and England to fight Hitler.
It took Canadian General Romeo Delaire to witness the genicide in Rowanda and cry out to the world leaders and the United Nations who ignored him and sat back watching, until of course it was too late. (kindof reminds me now of new Orleans and the politicians concerned).
It took America to stop Saddam Hussein.

I am right and I did see and get to know first hand WHAT THAT PART OF THE WORLD IS ABOUT.
LIve with it. You want to call me arrogant, fine....I know when Im right and when Im wrong and in 'all of this' Im right, live with it.
Bush saved a people and gave a country a chance at a new future. Thats worth everything. Decades and generations from this exact moment will look back and say it was their rebirth. And yes, I pray to God that it spreads and we see a domino effect of democracy in the region.
Israel for tooooooooo long has been the only the democracy in that part of the world.
Also, take note of what transpired in Lebanon recently, their much loved PM was assasinated recently by Syrian backed terrorists (Syria who has had its army there illegally since '82.) This act caused the uprising of the "people" who then demanded and forced the Expulsion of all Syrian Army personel.
This is exactly what Im talking about, the TIPPING POINT that must take place b4 change can occur.
Lebanon is now on its way to being free of Syrias evil Interferring in THEIR country's politics. In fact they have been trying to keep a very low profile since Saddam Husseins fall. Could they be next, they wonder...maybe?? Let them be afraid now.
Syria is a known supporter both financially and otherwise of known terorroists organizations.
I do have manners...hard to believe huh ?

49.

Elizabeth

September 8, 2005, 12:53 AM

Luisa;
"But invading a country in a forceful way is not right. There are more diplomatic and effective ways of dealing with these problems. War brings more misery and war should be the last option."
You are amazing.....your comment above just amazes me really......war brings 'more' misery??? Well living under Saddam brought a hell of a lot of misery to 100's of 1000's of people who are now being dug up out of mass graves. Or please, by all means ask the Kurds how they feel about misery! I for one will NEVER FORGET the photos of swollen bodies of small babies, children,men and women lying all over the streets of Northern Iraq.
YES, I'll try to be polite and not say DUH!!, but YES war does bring misery, are you saying all the misery of a Hitler or a Saddam left unchallenged is the lessser of two evils? All my Family over 300 of them and my people, 6 million ( 1 million children under the age of 13), or the 25 million Russians etc etc....wouldnt agree with you.
Would the Rowandans that were masacred say no please dont invade and save us....please lets all sit down and have tea..yes thats civilized!
No, they wouldnt.
Well, guess what, its a reality that invading countries is alright when its JUST.
peace to u. Im tired now, long day.

50.

Elizabeth

September 8, 2005, 12:53 AM

Luisa;
"But invading a country in a forceful way is not right. There are more diplomatic and effective ways of dealing with these problems. War brings more misery and war should be the last option."
You are amazing.....your comment above just amazes me really......war brings 'more' misery??? Well living under Saddam brought a hell of a lot of misery to 100's of 1000's of people who are now being dug up out of mass graves. Or please, by all means ask the Kurds how they feel about misery! I for one will NEVER FORGET the photos of swollen bodies of small babies, children,men and women lying all over the streets of Northern Iraq.
YES, I'll try to be polite and not say DUH!!, but YES war does bring misery, are you saying all the misery of a Hitler or a Saddam left unchallenged is the lessser of two evils? All my Family over 300 of them and my people, 6 million ( 1 million children under the age of 13), or the 25 million Russians etc etc....wouldnt agree with you.
Would the Rowandans that were masacred say no please dont invade and save us....please lets all sit down and have tea..yes thats civilized!
No, they wouldnt.
Well, guess what, its a reality that invading countries is alright when its JUST.
peace to u. Im tired now, long day.

51.

asesino

September 8, 2005, 10:10 AM

yo crawdad

re # 45: As Rainer Werner Fassbinder once said to me, "Vell, dat's your opinion."

52.

Luisa

September 8, 2005, 8:32 PM

Elizabeth,
With all due respect, your thinking is very primitive. Your only solution seems to be: war, war & war. Thank God, N.A.T.O. was created. But, I have to admit that sometimes they are successful and sometimes they are not (USA-Iraq current war for example).

According to a NYT article by a well respected historian, “we are leaving through the most peaceful period in world history”….hard to believe when there are people that think like you!

So, tell me? What other countries do you want to invade?
No tea please, … I prefer lots of scotch!

53.

Elizabeth

September 8, 2005, 11:13 PM

Luisa, you are simpleminded and naive and I could say a few more things like your drinking too much scotch because you make no sense.

54.

Elizabeth

September 8, 2005, 11:24 PM

1; go read and get educated on NATO, that was a treaty for the Western Allies and America to protect eachother from invasion; re, the Cold War and Russia, read about that if you are able.
2 I said war is not the answer UNLESS your dealing with Genocide and mad Dictators. scroll up!!!!!!!!!!!! reread since you sorely need to.
3 debating politics with you is wrong since you know nothing.
have a great night Luisa and go to sleep thinking of all those tea parties you could have planned to talk Saddam out of his policies of mass murder and genocide, and those tea parties in Rowanda with the sun shining down on you whilst men women and children were being hacked to death also while the UNITED NATIONS SAT BACK AND WATCHED. Read General R. Delaires horror stories on that and his cries to the world leaders and the UN.
So yes, go to sleep and think of teas with Hitler & the rest of them and how much fun it will be.

55.

Franklin

September 8, 2005, 11:32 PM

That's enough, Elizabeth.

56.

George

September 8, 2005, 11:35 PM

Ahem, Kathleen, this is getting boring and now has gone over the top.
Franklins guidelines are explicit, "Address the writing, not the writer"

57.

George

September 8, 2005, 11:37 PM

oops,

I meant to address Elizabeth as being "waaayyy over the top" now

58.

Elizabeth

September 8, 2005, 11:39 PM

Franklin; great timing, Im more then done....no worries.
My daughter who is in her 4th year at York U.in Humanities/Law and has won awards for highest academic achievements read this debate tonight with Luisa and just asked me why Im even bothering. That just about says it !

59.

asesino

September 9, 2005, 9:53 AM

September 7, 2005
Barbara Bush Calls Evacuees Better Off
By THE NEW YORK TIMES

WASHINGTON, Sept. 6 - As President Bush battled criticism over the response to Hurricane Katrina, his mother declared it a success for evacuees who "were underprivileged anyway," saying on Monday that many of the poor people she had seen while touring a Houston relocation site were faring better than before the storm hit.

"What I'm hearing, which is sort of scary, is they all want to stay in Texas," Barbara Bush said in an interview on Monday with the radio program "Marketplace." "Everyone is so overwhelmed by the hospitality."

"And so many of the people in the arena here, you know, were underprivileged anyway," she said, "so this is working very well for them."

Mrs. Bush toured the Astrodome complex with her husband, former President George Bush, as part of an administration campaign throughout the Gulf Coast region to counter criticism of the response to the storm. Former President Bush and former President Bill Clinton are helping raise money for the rebuilding effort.

White House officials did not respond on Tuesday to calls for comment on Mrs. Bush's remarks.

60.

Elizabeth

September 10, 2005, 8:41 PM

This is directed at Luisa and no need to reply either, since I wont bother with this debate further.
An addendum; two more recent invasions where America and the Coalition went in or invaded to save the populace from mass murder, toture etc etc....Bosnia and Afganistan.
I will also add that Afgan. was a refuge for Bin Laden, so in that case there was an added incentive.
Thanks to America and the Coalition , 2 more countries have a fighting chance.
Bravo
ps. they also prevented the Taliban from destroying more priceless antiquities that didnt fit the Muslim agenda.
ok....now Im done..goodnight all .

61.

reality check

September 11, 2005, 10:00 AM

Afghanistan is a case of arming and funding certain warlord chiefains to battle other warlord chieftains, as when the CIA jump started the current fundamentalist jihad back in the 70s, by arming and organizing mujahade'en fighters against the Soviets.

In our recent intervention, often the same warlords who were manifestly pro-Taliban, after an infusion of wads of new $100 bills straight from the US Treasury, suddenly changed allegiance to the Northern Alliance. Regime change can be as simple as a bribe. Your tax dollars at work. So please, no more bullshit about "saving" the Afghani people.

But at least Afghanistan is not a case of getting bogged down in an extended land war in Asia (a la Vietnam). That special honor is reserved for Iraq. And every day that images of American soldiers occupying an Islamic country are broadcast throughout the world, another terrorist is born, and Osama grows stronger.

62.

reality check

September 11, 2005, 10:45 AM

P..S. After we gave the Red Army a black eye by arming the mujahedeen, and after the Soviets finally withdrew in defeat, we suddenly lost interest in Afghanistan, and stood on the sidelines as various warlord factions, armed to the teeth by the CIA, turned their weaponry against each other. Years of bloody civil war ensued before the Taliban emerged victorious. We weren't interested in "saving' Afghanistan then, and we're not now. It's all realpolitik baby, with humanitarian window dressing.

With any empire, there's a blowback effect. Bush I, as head of the CIA, advanced the jihad by arming and organizing it against the Soviets. Now Bush II, the President on Permanent Vacation, reaps the seeds of his daddy's imperial adventure, and gets elected (for the first time: 2000 was ordination by Scalia) with a simplistic agenda of combatting the "evildoers". It's all jingoistic flimflam, a smokescreen designed to keep the tollbooth collectors, convenience store clerks and other minimum wage slaves from recognizing their class interest. Will New Orleans change this? Will it be a Zen slap that finally exposes the corruption and arrogance of Bush II and his regime? Not if the Elizabeths of the world have anything to say about it.

63.

Elizabeth

September 11, 2005, 3:07 PM

Reality C.; grow up, Im more of a realist then you will ever be and I am fully aware of all the backroom deals, but two facts REMAIN; 1. that Bin Ladens safe house had to be "removed".....that was done quickly.
2. the Afgani populace is no longer under the TALIBAN RULE.
bite on those 2 facts and eat it and please dont preach to the educated, its just repetitious and frankly boring.
Some of you americans have a real pickle up ur ass's about Bush 1 and 2.
LOOK at the NOW.
LOOK at WHERE PEOPLE ARE BEING SLAUGHTERED AND DONT SIT BACK AND WATCH LIKE THE UN IS SO GOOD AT...
I dont care for Bush, but I do care that action was taken when it was needed. And yes he failed miserably in New Or.
your comment; the Elizabeths of the World, there should be more of me....and to you pfffffffffffffffft.

64.

George

September 11, 2005, 4:18 PM

Absolutely!

You have to give Bush credit, where credit is due. Without a doubt, we can be almost positive that Osama Bin Ladens is NOT hiding out in New Orleans.

That's one down...

Go GW

65.

pfffffffffffffffft

September 12, 2005, 11:01 PM

Some "folks" (a fave Bush II nomenclature) are so self righteous and insistent on all they claim to know, only to reveal, with each new entry, that they float listlessly on a river called De Nial.

A heckler once yelled at New York Governor Al Smith: "Go ahead Al. Tell 'em all you know. It won't take long." Smith replied: "I'll tell 'em all we both know. It won't take any longer."

As many others on this blog have discovered, matching wits with you is singularly unfulfilling, as you bring nothing of interest to the table.

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